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@  d2_s : (06 September 2017 - 04:16 PM) @Space sorry not to address you. The above post was for you too :)
@  d2_s : (06 September 2017 - 04:19 PM) As a side note, the brief bit I did get to play was very enjoyable. The patrol zones are much bigger, more dense and more action packed.  My issues started after arriving in the 1st major patrol zone. After 1-2 hours there my issues started and the game hasn't lasted 5 minutes since.
@  ermac666 : (07 September 2017 - 10:15 AM) Knack 2 is also out for those who are into it. It looks good, and the game is sold at a cheaper price which is nice. Game seems much improved over knack 1.
@  d2_s : (08 September 2017 - 04:35 AM) Getting another PS4 Pro seemed to do the trick for me. Must be a minor hardware error or something. The 2nd one I bought is the same model. Seems quite a few people are affected by this problem.
@  Brandino : (09 September 2017 - 01:44 AM) So far Destiny 2 has been fun to play.  The graphics definitely are a notch higher and the levels don't seem so sparse and quiet.
@  TonyDP : (10 September 2017 - 09:05 PM) I've found the difficulty to be better balanced on the activities I've played so far. I tend to play solo a lot and I never really felt overwhelmed; when my guardian died it was usually because I didn't take my time and tried rushing ahead. The loot drop rate is pretty good too. I already have about a dozen exotics and have gotten enough legendaries that my Warlock has all legendary/exotic gear equipped
@  TonyDP : (10 September 2017 - 09:06 PM) and I have about 100 legendary shards in the bank. Not bad for 5 days; way way better than the early days of Destiny 1.
@  Goldenheart : (12 September 2017 - 06:30 PM) So... interesting thing happened. We got a new apartment, looked up the local internet providers, dialed Comcast's phone number, and got a message saying the call couldn't be completed as dialed. My wife tried the # on her phone. Same message. We're thinking it's very odd such a big company can't get its own phone number right. We call a 3rd time using an app that acts like a phone. Got right through. It seems AT&T doesn't like its customers dialing Comcast.  :crazy:
@  Brandino : (13 September 2017 - 12:14 AM) I'm finding Destiny 2 as more of an expansion then a true sequel.  It's fun and they fixed a lot of mistakes from the first.
@  SpaceInsomniac : (13 September 2017 - 10:11 AM) Glad to hear Destiny on PS4 is now working for you d2.  You should join LeadBetter and me sometime.
@  SpaceInsomniac : (13 September 2017 - 02:24 PM) And I'm guessing you already have a clan in mind for PS4 Destiny, but if not, you're welcome to join ours.  So far it's myself, LeadBetter, and a group of people that I played a lot of Titanfall 2 with.
@  d2_s : (14 September 2017 - 04:34 PM) @Space cheers. I'm with the same clan I was in the original Destiny. We should play, I wouldn't mind doing the nightfall and rat king quest with you guys if you haven't done them already. Haven't had a chance  to play much this week, but should be ok this weekend.
@  d2_s : (14 September 2017 - 04:35 PM) Happy to raid with you guys too if condtions permit.
@  Goldenheart : (16 September 2017 - 09:16 PM) So... odd thing happened. We got a new apartment in Philly. I tried to call Comcast to ask about their internet & got a message that my call couldn't be completed as dialed. My wife tried & got the same message. I thought it odd such a big company couldn't get their own ph# right. Then, we dialed using an app that acted like a phone. We got right through. Seems AT&T doesn't like their customers dialing comcast.
@  Goldenheart : (16 September 2017 - 09:17 PM) & then I tried calling to end internet service at the old house & the computer hung up on me! A week later, I made it back to the old house & found the modem dead! No lights, nothing.
@  Goldenheart : (16 September 2017 - 09:17 PM) old house has AT&T internet & AT&T modem.
@  KaliniuS : (17 September 2017 - 04:14 PM) It's time for my semi-annual check-in at HDTV Arcade lol
@  KaliniuS : (17 September 2017 - 04:17 PM) I've been helping beta test the Steam version of Killer Instinct lately. Speaking of KI, I'm actually going to a tournament on September 30th here in Raleigh, NC. It's called "The Fall Classic." Wish me luck!
@  ermac666 : (20 September 2017 - 06:00 AM) Speaking of fighting games, marvel vs capcom: infinite is out for ps4/pro, XB1 and PC. It plays great with more modes than SFV at launch. I am still getting used to the gem system.
@  ermac666 : (20 September 2017 - 06:02 AM) The only downside is that future dlc characters are behind a pay wall, and there are no x-men characters as 20th century fox now owns the x-men licence from what I understand.

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No Man's Sky & broken game promises in general


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#1 Goldenheart

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 12:15 PM

No Man's Sky devs apparently claimed there would be much more to the game than they were actually able to deliver. This has led to complaining en masse by gamers, and caused Sony, Amazon, and Steam to offer refunds well beyond their usual refund limitations.

Here's a question: If a developer makes claims as to what's going to be in the game, but then then final product is less than that, (for either technical or budget constraints, the actual reason is irrelevant for this question,) what should be the accepted way to convey to the gamer community, "This is what the game is now"?  

I never pre-order, so this question doesn't effect me, but I'm curious about what others think would be a valid method for when game promises can't be kept. There's no industry standard for handling this, and there can be a wide range of reasonable ways to handle it, (along with some questionable ways to handle it once the Marketing Dept. gets involved). This was quite the debate in the Youtube comments section, but I wanted a more intelligent/mature crowd's thoughts on it.
Failure is not important. How you overcome it is.

"Any day you don't die is a good day."
Quoted from a member of the bomb squad. I'm sure many soldiers feel that way too.


Make it idiot-proof, and someone will make a better idiot.

#2 TonyDP

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 09:43 PM

Not sure if this answers your question, but here goes....

I own No Man's Sky (PS4 version) and I've had a lot of fun with the game. I followed its development casually so while the premise was right up my alley I didn't hang on every interview and video and still don't really know just what these promises were that were never delivered. From the early videos, it was my understanding that much of the game would be procedurally generated (check), I saw giant dinosaur aliens (check), space combat (check), being able to seamlessly go from space to the planet and back again (check, check and check), finding and repairing crashed ships (checks), being able to mine resources (check), being able to interact with aliens and buy and sell items (check and check), being able to learn alien languages (check), being able to catalog a planet's flora and fauna (check). The game was always promoted as a "chill" single player experience where the odds of meeting other players were infinitesmal at best. Graphically it looks fine to me and very comparable to the early videos I saw.

As an older gamer (51) it took me about 15 minutes of playing to see that No Man's Sky was little more than a 1980s PC game like the original Elite with updated graphics. Those games of that era were open-ended, didn't hold your hands at all, and really had no endgame to them. The open-ended nature and isolation in the game are major pluses to me and I am amazed that so many players still don't understand what a simple concept Hello Games was actually going for.

I also think anyone who played the game for more than 10 hours and then demanded their money back is just a spoiled, entitled gamer. A quick perusal of the net and a couple of hours of gameplay is all any reasonable person would have needed to see just what this game has to offer, even if they did pre-order it. It seems most gamers (and reviewers for that matter) automatically diss any game that doesn't hold the player by the hand or offer 10 zillion multi-player options. There are plenty of other games for that; this one is aiming for a very different experience.

Maybe Hello Games did plan to add more features that either were not possible given hardware limitations or time constraints. And Sony has always been notorious for hyping their games to death. In spite of that, I got everything I was expecting from the game and feel I easily got my money's worth.

My only gripe was that the game did ship with a lot of bugs and it crashed more on me in the first week that all the other console games I've ever owned combined. That has been largely fixed now and it has not crashed on me in the past several days but it was a little disconcerting nonetheless.

So I for one do not understand all the hate the game got and regardless of what was promised, I think there is enough there to justify the price and I think it's an amazing accomplishment considering how small the development team was. There are plenty of "A" list games I paid $60 or more for that didn't get as much playtime as this.

#3 Goldenheart

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 06:49 AM

What I heard was it was very buggy and there was actually no multiplayer proved by a couple people going to the same spot on the same planet and not seeing each other. I forget if they were Youtubers or who they were, but they were well known. That's the premise for the refund. The video I watched that inspired my question was "the know" on Youtube. They talked about it and the refunds.

I really don't care so much about No Man's Sky so much as the concept in general of a dev not delivering features they said they would and how they should address that so people don't feel defrauded. I think that's a curious collision of marketing hype vs the morality of not deceiving customers vs understanding that new games aren't always as described and should we treat games differently than physical products and features promised just because games fail to live up to the hype so often?

If devs all worded it as what they hope it ends up as, like "What we want to have is..., What we aim to do is..." and not use phrases of certainty like "This game will have..." then I think this would be a total non-issue. I don't follow games in development, but given the brew-ha-ha this caused, I'm assuming they said the game "would have" and not "we want it to have".
Failure is not important. How you overcome it is.

"Any day you don't die is a good day."
Quoted from a member of the bomb squad. I'm sure many soldiers feel that way too.


Make it idiot-proof, and someone will make a better idiot.

#4 d2_s

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 10:49 PM

Regarding Noman's Sky, I don't have anything to add. I am in full agreement with Tony's post and share the perspective that alot of the complainers are nasty entitled whiners. I suspect alot of people who don't typically play this kind of game jumped on the hype train and either pre-ordered or bought the game day one. They could have waited on reviews, checked out gameplay footage, read other people impressions before buying day one, but they didn't. Tough luck!

Considering the small team that worked on this game, I have to say I am really impressed with what they accomplished. It was buggy at launch, the main gameplay loop is a tedious IMHO and the price point was a bit higher than where I felt it should have been. BUT the end product is an ambitious, niche Indie title - it never looked anything more than that and I never expected more than that.

@GH regarding the industry as a whole. There are many ways things could improve and many practices I consider anti-consumer. I'll touch on some of that in another post as I've ran out of time :)

#5 Brandino

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Posted 16 September 2016 - 10:13 PM

The only gripe would be the multiplayer part where the youtubers did not see each other... that's misleading.   I didn't think the final product was something misleading like Gearbox had done with Aliens and Brothers in Arms in the past...

I don't understand why people feel the need to buy day one...  always wait a few weeks to see how it pans out in the end. Buyer beware!
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