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@  ermac666 : (14 April 2017 - 09:02 PM) There will come a time where they just can't rely on the base consoles anymore due to their weaker performance. I would like to see how devs deal with this as games get more graphically intense and complex.
@  ermac666 : (14 April 2017 - 09:03 PM) Ensuring compatability where base consoles don't get shafted is going to be tougher
@  Brandino : (15 April 2017 - 10:42 AM) booo spam bots
@  TonyDP : (19 April 2017 - 09:34 PM) So Bungie said the light level 400 Mythoclast would have a "generous drop rate" from the Vault of Glass in Destiny's Age of Triumph. I've now completed the raid 9 times and, surprise surprise, still no Vex. My raid team has now completed it 54 times (6 players x 3 weeks x 3 runs per week) and it has only dropped 3 times in total. I am sick of their BS. No Destiny 2 for me. Bungie can go fuck themselves.
@  colonel_j2020 : (20 April 2017 - 06:54 PM) I will quite likely play destiny 2 since I never played destiny.  That does sound sucky.  Reminds of my 20% drop rate in WOW raid.  Do raid 20 times = 0 drops :(
@  TonyDP : (20 April 2017 - 09:06 PM) With Bungie it goes beyond the lousy drop rates. We already had all the stuff and perks they're promoting in Age of Triumph and they took it all away for no good reason. Now they rehash it and try to make it look like they're giving us what we always wanted out of the kindness of their hearts.
@  Brandino : (20 April 2017 - 10:14 PM) I gave up on Destiny a year ago,  the game really wasn't worth the grind.  The rewards are so small for doing the same thing over and over and over again.
@  Goldenheart : (20 April 2017 - 11:54 PM) Destiny 2 already? But, but... I could've sworn Destiny was supposed to be a 10yr experience. Or something silly like that.
@  Goldenheart : (20 April 2017 - 11:55 PM) Maybe they meant it'll take them 10yrs to figure out the story & how to get drop rates right. :P
@  d2_s : (27 April 2017 - 05:57 AM) Sorry guys, the moderator control panel dowsnt work like it used to. It used to auto delete all posts for users marked as a Spammer, but it doesnt do that anymore. Royal PITA.
@  d2_s : (27 April 2017 - 06:38 AM) @Tony sucks about the vex drop rates. I havent tried farming for it yet, but so far everything else seems really easy to get. I recall having to do 30-40 Aetheon kills before getting a Vex on X1. I know one guy who farmed for it 2 years solid to get a year 1 Vex.
@  TonyDP : (27 April 2017 - 07:02 PM) d2, one of the guys in my group still has never gotten it. I'm now 0-12 in my quest for the Vex. The group I raid with have collectively done it 72 times (3 tries per week x 6 members x 4 weeks). Out of that it has only dropped 4 times or about 5.5% of the time. On the other hand I have gotten 7 legendary Visions of Confluence. Armor drops are also very stingy. Just Bungie's wonky RNG working as intended I guess.
@  d2_s : (30 April 2017 - 02:23 AM) That's some luck. 1st time I ran the new VoG we carried one guy through ... he gets Vex and Fate Bringer (Adept) in one run. Bungie RNG at it's finest. Fortunately, the adpet primaries from all raids are very easy to get and they are the main guns I want. Good luck chasing that Vex.
@  Brandino : (19 May 2017 - 07:04 PM) Did anyone check out the destiny 2 twitch stream?
@  TonyDP : (19 May 2017 - 07:38 PM) Didn't watch the livestream but saw some gameplay videos. Looks pretty but disappointed that consoles will be capped at 30fps and that all PvP content will be 4v4. Still leaning towards skipping this one (Destiny 1 just required too much of a time commitment).
@  Brandino : (21 May 2017 - 09:39 PM) I watched only tid bits of the live stream... read much more online.  I'm very skeptical... it seems like they copied a lot of multiplayer ideas from Halo 5 and aside from bigger levels... wasn't really sold on the single player content
@  d2_s : (23 May 2017 - 06:29 AM) I was really impressed with the live stream and am looking forward to the game.  The only disappointment to me was all PvP modes being 4v4. Seems like a big step backwards if you ask me.
@  d2_s : (23 May 2017 - 04:27 PM) And of course still no dedicated servers...PvE looks solid though..
@  TonyDP : (23 May 2017 - 09:04 PM) Also not wild about the new weapon loadout system: two primaries and either a special or a heavy. It feels like another attempt to get players to focus on primaries in PvP but compromises your options in PvE.
@  ermac666 : (24 May 2017 - 06:46 AM) Games I am looking forward to for the rest of 2017 are tekken 7, uncharted lost legacy dlc, COD WWII, sonic forces, middle earth shadow of war and marvel vs capcom infinite.

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No Man's Sky & broken game promises in general


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#1 Goldenheart

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 12:15 PM

No Man's Sky devs apparently claimed there would be much more to the game than they were actually able to deliver. This has led to complaining en masse by gamers, and caused Sony, Amazon, and Steam to offer refunds well beyond their usual refund limitations.

Here's a question: If a developer makes claims as to what's going to be in the game, but then then final product is less than that, (for either technical or budget constraints, the actual reason is irrelevant for this question,) what should be the accepted way to convey to the gamer community, "This is what the game is now"?  

I never pre-order, so this question doesn't effect me, but I'm curious about what others think would be a valid method for when game promises can't be kept. There's no industry standard for handling this, and there can be a wide range of reasonable ways to handle it, (along with some questionable ways to handle it once the Marketing Dept. gets involved). This was quite the debate in the Youtube comments section, but I wanted a more intelligent/mature crowd's thoughts on it.
Failure is not important. How you overcome it is.

"Any day you don't die is a good day."
Quoted from a member of the bomb squad. I'm sure many soldiers feel that way too.


Make it idiot-proof, and someone will make a better idiot.

#2 TonyDP

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 09:43 PM

Not sure if this answers your question, but here goes....

I own No Man's Sky (PS4 version) and I've had a lot of fun with the game. I followed its development casually so while the premise was right up my alley I didn't hang on every interview and video and still don't really know just what these promises were that were never delivered. From the early videos, it was my understanding that much of the game would be procedurally generated (check), I saw giant dinosaur aliens (check), space combat (check), being able to seamlessly go from space to the planet and back again (check, check and check), finding and repairing crashed ships (checks), being able to mine resources (check), being able to interact with aliens and buy and sell items (check and check), being able to learn alien languages (check), being able to catalog a planet's flora and fauna (check). The game was always promoted as a "chill" single player experience where the odds of meeting other players were infinitesmal at best. Graphically it looks fine to me and very comparable to the early videos I saw.

As an older gamer (51) it took me about 15 minutes of playing to see that No Man's Sky was little more than a 1980s PC game like the original Elite with updated graphics. Those games of that era were open-ended, didn't hold your hands at all, and really had no endgame to them. The open-ended nature and isolation in the game are major pluses to me and I am amazed that so many players still don't understand what a simple concept Hello Games was actually going for.

I also think anyone who played the game for more than 10 hours and then demanded their money back is just a spoiled, entitled gamer. A quick perusal of the net and a couple of hours of gameplay is all any reasonable person would have needed to see just what this game has to offer, even if they did pre-order it. It seems most gamers (and reviewers for that matter) automatically diss any game that doesn't hold the player by the hand or offer 10 zillion multi-player options. There are plenty of other games for that; this one is aiming for a very different experience.

Maybe Hello Games did plan to add more features that either were not possible given hardware limitations or time constraints. And Sony has always been notorious for hyping their games to death. In spite of that, I got everything I was expecting from the game and feel I easily got my money's worth.

My only gripe was that the game did ship with a lot of bugs and it crashed more on me in the first week that all the other console games I've ever owned combined. That has been largely fixed now and it has not crashed on me in the past several days but it was a little disconcerting nonetheless.

So I for one do not understand all the hate the game got and regardless of what was promised, I think there is enough there to justify the price and I think it's an amazing accomplishment considering how small the development team was. There are plenty of "A" list games I paid $60 or more for that didn't get as much playtime as this.

#3 Goldenheart

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 06:49 AM

What I heard was it was very buggy and there was actually no multiplayer proved by a couple people going to the same spot on the same planet and not seeing each other. I forget if they were Youtubers or who they were, but they were well known. That's the premise for the refund. The video I watched that inspired my question was "the know" on Youtube. They talked about it and the refunds.

I really don't care so much about No Man's Sky so much as the concept in general of a dev not delivering features they said they would and how they should address that so people don't feel defrauded. I think that's a curious collision of marketing hype vs the morality of not deceiving customers vs understanding that new games aren't always as described and should we treat games differently than physical products and features promised just because games fail to live up to the hype so often?

If devs all worded it as what they hope it ends up as, like "What we want to have is..., What we aim to do is..." and not use phrases of certainty like "This game will have..." then I think this would be a total non-issue. I don't follow games in development, but given the brew-ha-ha this caused, I'm assuming they said the game "would have" and not "we want it to have".
Failure is not important. How you overcome it is.

"Any day you don't die is a good day."
Quoted from a member of the bomb squad. I'm sure many soldiers feel that way too.


Make it idiot-proof, and someone will make a better idiot.

#4 d2_s

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 10:49 PM

Regarding Noman's Sky, I don't have anything to add. I am in full agreement with Tony's post and share the perspective that alot of the complainers are nasty entitled whiners. I suspect alot of people who don't typically play this kind of game jumped on the hype train and either pre-ordered or bought the game day one. They could have waited on reviews, checked out gameplay footage, read other people impressions before buying day one, but they didn't. Tough luck!

Considering the small team that worked on this game, I have to say I am really impressed with what they accomplished. It was buggy at launch, the main gameplay loop is a tedious IMHO and the price point was a bit higher than where I felt it should have been. BUT the end product is an ambitious, niche Indie title - it never looked anything more than that and I never expected more than that.

@GH regarding the industry as a whole. There are many ways things could improve and many practices I consider anti-consumer. I'll touch on some of that in another post as I've ran out of time :)

#5 Brandino

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Posted 16 September 2016 - 10:13 PM

The only gripe would be the multiplayer part where the youtubers did not see each other... that's misleading.   I didn't think the final product was something misleading like Gearbox had done with Aliens and Brothers in Arms in the past...

I don't understand why people feel the need to buy day one...  always wait a few weeks to see how it pans out in the end. Buyer beware!
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