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@  Brandino : (17 October 2017 - 02:27 AM) Just wanted to post that I'm still alive lol...
@  Goldenheart : (21 October 2017 - 01:36 PM) sorry for the double post earlier. Didn't realize it.
@  d2_s : (28 October 2017 - 06:04 AM) How’s everyone? What are you playing? I have been enjoying Piranha Bytes latest creation Elex. A little rough around the edges, but really enjoyable.
@  ermac666 : (28 October 2017 - 09:03 PM) This month has been packed with games. Hard time deciding to allocate my time playing GT sports, assassins creed origins (love the egypt setting), evil within 2 and the fast paced wolfenstein 2.
@  colonel_j2020 : (31 October 2017 - 04:32 PM) I have been playing Destiny 2 on PC.  It is my first taste of Destiny.  I am enjoying it so far but I haven't hit that grind stage yet or run out of content.
@  TonyDP : (01 November 2017 - 07:19 PM) Hi all. Got all three of my guardians on Destiny 2 to Power Level 305 so I think I'm going to put that down for a while. Beyond that, been playing a lot of PSVR: Megaton Rainfall, Raw Data; Doom VFR and Skyrim VR are right around the corner and looking really good.
@  d2_s : (03 November 2017 - 03:42 AM) Must say that Skyrim VR looks awesome.  It has come a long way and i’ll have to pick iy up.
@  TonyDP : (05 November 2017 - 08:31 PM) Yeah the recent Skyrim VR videos have me stoked. Obviously the resolution inside the headset will be lower but the immersion should more than make up for it. Videos to Doom VFR looked sick as well.
@  kyle_5_16 : (07 November 2017 - 03:06 PM) Alright, who got the Xbox One X?
@  TonyDP : (07 November 2017 - 10:30 PM) As an Xbox One S owner, right now I see no compelling reason to get an Xbox One X. I don't have a 4K TV and I don't have any desire to replay a bunch of games I've already beaten just for the sake of some prettier graphics. If MS ever releases a VR headset or does something innovative beyond just pushing more pixels in existing games then I'll take a look. If my "S" kicks the bucket, I'll take a look. But right now I really don't need one.
@  TonyDP : (08 November 2017 - 02:56 PM) Annnnnnnnnd ... I bought one. Dear God, I wish I had some self control.
@  ermac666 : (10 November 2017 - 08:14 PM) I won't be getting one anytime soon. It's exclusives are also on PCs and the multiplats from what I have seen from comparisons are not that much better than on the pro in terms of frame rate aside from holding a higher resolutions.
@  ermac666 : (10 November 2017 - 08:23 PM) I will get one once the games fully take advantage of it ,a nd the gulf between it and the pro becomes bigger. Right now, I don't see any reason to get the One X for me.
@  TonyDP : (11 November 2017 - 03:59 PM) I don't do PC gaming so it's easier for me to justify having the best MS and Sony consoles I can get. FWIW, even with a 1080p TV I can still easily see improvements in games. Tomb Raider now has 60fps all the time; Forza Horizon 3 has nice reflections in the cars that didn't show up on my Xbox One S, etc. Once I get a 4K TV I'm sure the visual upgrades will be even more pronounced.
@  kyle_5_16 : (13 November 2017 - 12:28 AM) lol @TonyDP your first two responses are hilarious read back to back. Didn't take you long at all to come around to it
@  TonyDP : (13 November 2017 - 05:09 PM) Like I said, I have no willpower. Still, the X1X is nice; I was playing some Hitman on it yesterday and the graphical effects were in a completely new league.
@  d2_s : (14 November 2017 - 04:47 AM) I have no regrets getting the X, it’s a fantastic system. Light on exclusives for sure, but a nice replacement for the S and was pleasantly surprised to see some 360 games getting a Faux-K makeover. Fallout 3 and Mirrors Edge look like new games running on the S.
@  d2_s : (14 November 2017 - 04:48 AM) Running on the X I meant :)
@  TonyDP : (14 November 2017 - 05:08 PM) Fallout 3 looks and runs really nicely on the X1X
@  Brandino : (21 November 2017 - 01:11 AM) I been playing a lot of Ghost Recon Wildlands lately... that game has a lot of content and is quite fun to play multiplayer with the right people.   It's very satisfying to clear out an area undetected and synching shots.

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No Man's Sky & broken game promises in general


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#1 Goldenheart

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 12:15 PM

No Man's Sky devs apparently claimed there would be much more to the game than they were actually able to deliver. This has led to complaining en masse by gamers, and caused Sony, Amazon, and Steam to offer refunds well beyond their usual refund limitations.

Here's a question: If a developer makes claims as to what's going to be in the game, but then then final product is less than that, (for either technical or budget constraints, the actual reason is irrelevant for this question,) what should be the accepted way to convey to the gamer community, "This is what the game is now"?  

I never pre-order, so this question doesn't effect me, but I'm curious about what others think would be a valid method for when game promises can't be kept. There's no industry standard for handling this, and there can be a wide range of reasonable ways to handle it, (along with some questionable ways to handle it once the Marketing Dept. gets involved). This was quite the debate in the Youtube comments section, but I wanted a more intelligent/mature crowd's thoughts on it.
Failure is not important. How you overcome it is.

"Any day you don't die is a good day."
Quoted from a member of the bomb squad. I'm sure many soldiers feel that way too.


Make it idiot-proof, and someone will make a better idiot.

#2 TonyDP

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 09:43 PM

Not sure if this answers your question, but here goes....

I own No Man's Sky (PS4 version) and I've had a lot of fun with the game. I followed its development casually so while the premise was right up my alley I didn't hang on every interview and video and still don't really know just what these promises were that were never delivered. From the early videos, it was my understanding that much of the game would be procedurally generated (check), I saw giant dinosaur aliens (check), space combat (check), being able to seamlessly go from space to the planet and back again (check, check and check), finding and repairing crashed ships (checks), being able to mine resources (check), being able to interact with aliens and buy and sell items (check and check), being able to learn alien languages (check), being able to catalog a planet's flora and fauna (check). The game was always promoted as a "chill" single player experience where the odds of meeting other players were infinitesmal at best. Graphically it looks fine to me and very comparable to the early videos I saw.

As an older gamer (51) it took me about 15 minutes of playing to see that No Man's Sky was little more than a 1980s PC game like the original Elite with updated graphics. Those games of that era were open-ended, didn't hold your hands at all, and really had no endgame to them. The open-ended nature and isolation in the game are major pluses to me and I am amazed that so many players still don't understand what a simple concept Hello Games was actually going for.

I also think anyone who played the game for more than 10 hours and then demanded their money back is just a spoiled, entitled gamer. A quick perusal of the net and a couple of hours of gameplay is all any reasonable person would have needed to see just what this game has to offer, even if they did pre-order it. It seems most gamers (and reviewers for that matter) automatically diss any game that doesn't hold the player by the hand or offer 10 zillion multi-player options. There are plenty of other games for that; this one is aiming for a very different experience.

Maybe Hello Games did plan to add more features that either were not possible given hardware limitations or time constraints. And Sony has always been notorious for hyping their games to death. In spite of that, I got everything I was expecting from the game and feel I easily got my money's worth.

My only gripe was that the game did ship with a lot of bugs and it crashed more on me in the first week that all the other console games I've ever owned combined. That has been largely fixed now and it has not crashed on me in the past several days but it was a little disconcerting nonetheless.

So I for one do not understand all the hate the game got and regardless of what was promised, I think there is enough there to justify the price and I think it's an amazing accomplishment considering how small the development team was. There are plenty of "A" list games I paid $60 or more for that didn't get as much playtime as this.

#3 Goldenheart

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 06:49 AM

What I heard was it was very buggy and there was actually no multiplayer proved by a couple people going to the same spot on the same planet and not seeing each other. I forget if they were Youtubers or who they were, but they were well known. That's the premise for the refund. The video I watched that inspired my question was "the know" on Youtube. They talked about it and the refunds.

I really don't care so much about No Man's Sky so much as the concept in general of a dev not delivering features they said they would and how they should address that so people don't feel defrauded. I think that's a curious collision of marketing hype vs the morality of not deceiving customers vs understanding that new games aren't always as described and should we treat games differently than physical products and features promised just because games fail to live up to the hype so often?

If devs all worded it as what they hope it ends up as, like "What we want to have is..., What we aim to do is..." and not use phrases of certainty like "This game will have..." then I think this would be a total non-issue. I don't follow games in development, but given the brew-ha-ha this caused, I'm assuming they said the game "would have" and not "we want it to have".
Failure is not important. How you overcome it is.

"Any day you don't die is a good day."
Quoted from a member of the bomb squad. I'm sure many soldiers feel that way too.


Make it idiot-proof, and someone will make a better idiot.

#4 d2_s

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 10:49 PM

Regarding Noman's Sky, I don't have anything to add. I am in full agreement with Tony's post and share the perspective that alot of the complainers are nasty entitled whiners. I suspect alot of people who don't typically play this kind of game jumped on the hype train and either pre-ordered or bought the game day one. They could have waited on reviews, checked out gameplay footage, read other people impressions before buying day one, but they didn't. Tough luck!

Considering the small team that worked on this game, I have to say I am really impressed with what they accomplished. It was buggy at launch, the main gameplay loop is a tedious IMHO and the price point was a bit higher than where I felt it should have been. BUT the end product is an ambitious, niche Indie title - it never looked anything more than that and I never expected more than that.

@GH regarding the industry as a whole. There are many ways things could improve and many practices I consider anti-consumer. I'll touch on some of that in another post as I've ran out of time :)

#5 Brandino

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Posted 16 September 2016 - 10:13 PM

The only gripe would be the multiplayer part where the youtubers did not see each other... that's misleading.   I didn't think the final product was something misleading like Gearbox had done with Aliens and Brothers in Arms in the past...

I don't understand why people feel the need to buy day one...  always wait a few weeks to see how it pans out in the end. Buyer beware!
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